Or should it be "Wow. This is Eve"?

A common retort used by the highly intellectual types on Eve-O is "go play Wow" or "Wow is that way". This is usually in response to the cry to make some things safer in Eve.

Now I have mixed views as to the validity of "safeness" and I fully understand the ethos that is Eve. But you know, if I were a commercial entity trying to raise the subscriber base, I'd be seriously looking at games that make the serious coin.

Wow has more than 11 million subscribers, roughly 20 times more than Eve. I've never played the game but if I take the comments of "go play Wow" to mean a game that is "safe" or has "safe areas" then how come it's so big? One of the most successful MMO's ever to hit the big screen. I'm fully aware that it's not single shard and segmented economics would be a consequence, but this does not seem to hurt the game overall.

Would CCP be doing good for business by making areas - such as high-sec - a safer place to nurture and establish new players and corporations?

Of course, there are many arguments both for and against and as an avid reader of the many posts on the topics, I can only see the protection of an idealogy as the common response for the vast majority of "change nothing" posters.

Is this the right approach? Is this being childishly selfish?

Does Eve need to evolve, in some areas, to be more effective for CCP economically? Is this the plan?

Food for thought.

Strangely, I'm curious why 0.0 members are contributing to this thread? It's not that you can't or shouldn't, it's why?

Correct me if I am wrong, after much complaint, bitching and whining, 0.0 alliances have just become the proud parents of substantial nerfs that makes 0.0 safer.

Odd they find it neccessary to defend the norm in highsec.

you mean like Agony Unleashed or Eve-Uni?

That used to be true but now that CCP is feeling some financial pressure I think they would *love* little piece of the WoW pie.

Not a lot to be read in that. There are games that are almost vertical in ascension and still growing.

I also note that Wow isn't on the chart either so where your comparison comes from eludes me.

And you stated "There is only one MMO that fails to give a crap about WOW. EVE is the one."

Wow isn't even on the chart.

That's lying. And that's horrible.

If you look at K Suri's posts it looks like that's exactly what he is asking for. I guess he never heard of Star Wars: Galaxies and the NGE.

You not getting my point yet?

"it's not possible to do without wrecking what makes EVE different."

It HASN'T happened with this mindset.
It WON'T happen with this mindset.

It COULD happen if we CHANGED the mindset.

According to BioWare, yes

Lastly, it can be hard to remember being new and trying to 'get sold' on this game that is frankly more famous for horror stories about scamming newbies being perfectly legal in the game, than for epic gameplay.

Well then doesn't that render the premise of your OP moot?

Have to say this discussion seems to just go round in circles. A lot of people want EVE to stay dark and dangerous where everything's always at risk. Some folks questioning whether safer might bring more cash to CCP which might be good for the game.

Why can't we have both?

Presenting: EVE - parallel universes.

CCP create a duplicate EVE where non-consensual PVP is just not possible. I can't imagine that would be hard to do. And then allow the playerbase to choose. Want to be completely safe in your own EVE universe? EVE B ---> . Do you like the dark and gritty, constant risk of loss? Stay put in EVE A.

Personally I don't do much PVP (I defend myself when attacked but don't (yet) go looking for fights), but I would stay put. I like the added danger.

But I understand it's a turnoff to a lot of people, and I have no problem with them having a "safer" sandbox to play EVE in. And if that safer sandbox brings in tons of new players, well that's good for both sandboxes as it gives CCP more cash to develop the game for both sandboxes.

Having distinct sandboxes also means the safe carebear isk faucet in EVE B wouldn't undermine the EVE A economy.

If EVE is going to survive and flourish, CCP need cash. That means more paying customers. If you don't want CCP to break your sandbox to attract those customers, then CCP need to build a new sandbox. This might be a quick way to do it.

Just FYI, those are the requirement for actually joining Agony the corporation. We also run PvP classes for the larger EVE community, which don't have those same restrictions, and don't involve joining Agony. Agony isn't a training corporation, it's a 0.0 PvP corporation that offers training courses.

http://www.agony-unleashed.com/wiki/index.php/Agony_PVP_University

is the wiki page for our public classes.

Bullshit. I didn't (name call in "every thread") and you did (call me out).

And more to the point, if it's so "right" and so "normal" why IS it being talked about so much?